Suspect SV AAA Suspect #10: Burning Down the House (Gouging Fire)

Not open for further replies.


you should love yourself... NOW!
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

Gouging Fire has been a powerhouse of an offensive threat ever since it has dropped in DLC2. Boasting strong offensive stats enabled with its further great bulk, it makes for a threatening Dragon Dance sweeper, with strong Fire STAB in Flare Blitz that can bulldoze over most neutral targets and great coverage in STAB Outrage and Earthquake that allow it to trample over most popular Fire-type counterplay like Primordial Sea Zapdos and Well-Baked Gholdengo. Paired with great abilities in Magic Guard, Desolate Land, Sword of Ruin and even potentially Earth Eater it makes for no wonder that Gouging has made quite the impact with its debut.

This overwhelming prowess as an offensive threat has however raised some eyebrows. Its list of truly secure counterplay after a Dragon Dance is limited, with the rising relevance of WBB Corv, a previously disliked set, within the meta as a testament to the unique challenges it can create when faced in the teambuilder. Outside of less popular niche options to check it, other checks like Unaware Deoxys-Defense, Unaware Mandibuzz and Physically Defensive Great Tusk/Primarina exist but are certainly not the most secure. Unaware checks can fold from sheer power of Deso/SoR sets and Tusk/Primairna can be similarly overwhelmed and can even eat attacks from them with its bulk to run over them. It isn't too hard for Gouging to get in and get to work as well given its large bulk and okay typing can afford it good setup opportunities on mons like Iron Moth/Heatran. Even supposedly secure checks like WBB Corv can even fold to the likes of Turboblaze sets, while not common, speaks to the power of Gouging Fire that many could consider unhealthy.

On the flipside, Gouging Fire isn't perfect either. Its speed, while respectable, isn't that great and makes setting up not entirely easy despite its good bulk, threatened by many common mons like Iron Boulder and Latios and still able to be revenged by the likes of Choice Scarf Roaring Moon and Walking Wake even after a +1 which can make it palatable to deal with offensively. While checks like Physically Defensive Tusk and Unaware Deoxys-Defense aren't entirely secure they still work for the most part which can be good enough, and it isn't too hard to find overlapping checks, with even RegenVest Swamp acting as a potential check. Gouging Fire isn't so easy to use either, it can prove somewhat hard to use with the increased popularity of hard checks like WBB Corv and lack of other utility. Though it can run Turboblaze and EE, it trades a lot of power in exchange which can worsen matchups into its other checks, making these sets less popular. It wants Morning Sun to serve its ability to come in multiple times in a game with its bulk but at the same time wants EQ for WBB Gholdengo. STAB Outrage is strong but at the same time can be limiting to use as coverage given its effect of forcing you into the move, serving it up for an easy revenge kill. Heat Crash can bypass recoil on non-MG sets but sacrifices your MU into Tusk and Iron Hands and otherwise having to live with severe recoil. Many options exist that can be threatening but ultimately suffers from its limited moveslots.

So hence the AAA Council has decided to leave it up to the community to decide whether this controversial lion of offense will remain within the metagame or prove too much and be removed!

How (Suspect Details):
During a Suspect test, each player must climb the ladder until they've acquired the GXE necessary to participate in the voting. Primarily, everyone that participates needs to make an alt account following these guidelines:
  • Every game must be played on the official Pokemon Showdown! site and on a new account (creation date no earlier than today, Thursday, 25th January with "AAAGF "--for example, I could create one called "AAAGF Man" to ladder with. Having the prefix at the beginning of your alt name is mandatory, AKA not in the middle (e.g. The AAAGF Man) and not at the end (e.g. The AAAGF).
  • AAALT accounts registered after this suspect test goes up and are attached to a signup in the AAALT thread can also be used to qualify for the suspect while also contributing towards AAALT.
  • To qualify for voting, your alt must meet the required GXE and games played threshold; it starts at 78% GXE at 25 games, down to 75% GXE at 40+ games.
  • Gouging Fire will be allowed on the ladder during the suspect.
  • The suspect test will go for two weeks and end on Thursday, 8th February at 10:00pm GMT -6
  • When posting proof of meeting reqs, feel free to use this thread as a means to disseminate topical opinions regarding whether or not Gouging Fire should be banned (Optional)
  • It is mandatory to provide proof of ownership of the alt account as well. (Post a picture of your reqs with your smogon name featured)
With that all of that being said, it's suspect time! As usual, the actual voting will take place in the Blind Voting Forum, so posting anything other than proof of reqs and discussion isn't necessary.


True Coffee Maniac
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staffis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
OM Leader

Quick Reqs run, fairly smooth aside from close game with gimmicky and a game I honestly threw versus another ladderer.

Team: :Gouging Fire: :Florges: :Corviknight: :Primarina: :Landorus-therian: :Kingambit:

Probably one of my strongest teams, similar core to the recent post I made, uses all three perma-weather abilities and a more offensive orientated Primarina whom claimed many lives. AV Kingambit is just quality, Desolando is just amazing, Thick Fat Florges is a very soft check to Gouging and checks Chien-Pao and Roaring Moon (unless the latter runs Iron Head... probably a CTeam at that point). Gouging Fire is bulky but enough speed to out speed relevant non-scarf stuff after a DD.

BAN GOUGING FIRE! That is all!


you should love yourself... NOW!
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

Was an exceedingly smooth run that had 80+ GXE for the most part with only loss to a Hydreigon team (that I would've won if I hadn't missed TWO Draco Meteors in a row) up to 19-1. Then I lost 3 times in a row to a Steam Engine Nasty Plot Hydrapple that went ALL OUT twice in a row, a Gouging Fire team because I didn't realise Iron Defense/EQ EE Garg lost to Gouging Fire and an extremely close game against someone running Giagantic sample for AAALTCS that I lost to 50/50s in the endgame.


Extremely basic 5 minute team that I made with the initial concept of EE Diancie but switched over to Garg cause Salt Cure is funny, but was surprisingly consistent. Diancie honestly might be better as a Fairy-type is amazing and also doesn't fucking lose to Gouging Fire without needing 2 moveslots lol. Hydreigon obviously is annoying but I encountered 3 of them (one of them in my last game for reqs...) and the only one that won was due to RNG because Hydreigon players are bad and this team can shift into a very offensive playstyle if it wants. SR is preferred on Garg but I switched to IronPress because MSun MGuard Gouging Fire can actually own you.

On that topic, I don't really have much thoughts on Gouging Fire. However seeing the extreme rise in WBB Corvs/Skarm + losing to Gouging even with a specific counter in EE Garg really does not help my mind lean towards supporting Gouging Fire staying. There are ton of cope checks but they really are not close to secure at all and for teams that are not cracked out offense it really isn't that hard to get Gouging in on stuff like Moth given its natural bulk and resists. Yeah it isn't that fun to use Gouging given it can be fishy but it still has a pretty undeniable effect on the teambuilder and doesn't contribute that much (except, maybe making it easier to use Swamp lol but it's already good enough).
Screenshot 2024-01-27 at 1.39.52 PM.png

I just slammed my head against a wall till I got reqs, this tiers ladder is a bit silly (motor drive swanna) Not the cleanest run, but I don't really care.

I'll just drop this team here, I peaked No.1 with its help and used it some during reqs. I know its some weird shit, but Adamant Pao 2HKO's all Fluffy + Leftovers Corv which has been seeing a rise in usage so I wanted to counter that + Adamant gives a stronger Ice Shard. The only weakness on this team is actually Chien-Pao itself, but just use Deo-S and Gouging Fire and outmanuver it. Stay in with Swampert and Knock band to Corv can wall, etc etc...

Screenshot 2024-01-25 at 5.21.42 PM.png
ngl idk if tour is gonna be as easy as high ladder, we'll see at the AAA Open.

GlalieGoesBoom for farming me on ladder and now is No1, imma make a cteam to that sash spam budd. ur like my rival no ash ketchup
Kinetic for strong advice
cat for other team (i'll make an RMT on it soon) and getting me into aaa.

fr listed to this the entire time :afrostar:


Slither Wing

used First Impression!
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

Solid run, although I'm starting to get more and more sick of ladder...

Spammed Semi-Room for the first couple of days until ladder decided to be a bitch and start counterteaming me, so I swapped to boring ass BO.
Semi-Rooms: (Would not recommend using these teams, they are very annoying to pilot at times and are fairly inconsistent after a while)
:deoxys-defense: :enamorus-therian: :roaring moon: :kingambit: :corviknight: :manaphy:
:deoxys-defense: :enamorus-therian: :corviknight: :meloetta: :walking wake: :ogerpon-cornerstone:

Boring ahh BO:
:iron boulder: :roaring moon: :great tusk: :meloetta: :corviknight: :iron moth:

Regarding Gouging Fire, I think AAA has the problem now of having too many main threats. While that normally is fine to an extent, in AAA's case I find it annoying since all the top-meta threats require vastly different defensive checks, meaning that unless you're building Fat, you're forced to forfeit vs one or more Matchups, and I think Gouging plays a big part in this, so I'll be voting Ban so we don't have to keep on running cope "defensive" checks to it just cause.
Last edited:


Here today, gone tomorrow
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
UM/OM Leader
Already gave my thoughts in the metagame discussion thread, and I'm still voting do not ban.

Let's see, losses were to Palossand twice bc who cares, not gonna change my team to beat an unmon, then also lost two games to everyone on PS getting forced and a different instances where I didn't realize I found a battle (L), so really I should only have 3 losses :C

:sv/Iron Hands::Swampert::Corviknight::Heatran::Scream Tail::Roaring Moon:

- Iron Hands is sick and kills like, everything // Rest was just to farm Glalie's stall team bc I kept seeing it (Iron Hands beats every mon on that team and can't really be killed), otherwise you can probably put Ice Punch there


Vegan funktioniert ned
is a Top Tiering Contributor
Cyril tbh i do not like the fact, that you ruined my perfect 25.0 >:(

voting ban most likely. Gougin Fire is quite restrictive in the teambuilder. I think MGLO with Eq + Flare Blitz is the best set and only gets walled by WBB Corvi, Skarm.

used the same Banded Scrappy Slither Wing team as last time.
:Slither Wing: :Corviknight: :Manaphy: :Gholdengo: :Iron Moth: :Sandy Shocks:
Screenshot 2024-01-29 at 13-49-16 AAALTCS Alt vs. AAAGF Celestia3 - Showdown!.png

Yeah yeah Gouging Fire bad but I'm not too fond of Chien-Pao either. Half the time it's just running its normal-ass ability like how can this even be allowed? What metagame are we even playing? Where's the creativity? Why is it named "Chien" when it's clearly a cat?

Took Glalie's team praise be to big stall.
Screenshot 2024-01-29 at 12.09.23 PM.png
DNB, idk i go out of my way to not use a wbb mon even though theyre really good rn and still its fine, you can manage it between like swampert, prima, deod, and deos/scarfers/skewda/dnite. Many teams i build start off with a wbb mandibuzz who completely owns gfire but then i drop it because i realize i dont even like need it, have enough tools already.
First time getting reqs in 25 games :) included GF in this team and it definitely shored up some previous weaknesses.


Since DLC 2 I’ve never lost to a GF. Not sure if it’s my team composition, my play, or opponents don’t know how to use it. The offensive/sweeping sets punish passive Pokemon- it may be that I run a more offensive team- so I don’t give it a chance to set up
I think the main problem with GF, is it can run so many viable sets. Figuring out if it’s bulky, defensive, offensive, sweeper etc is what makes it hard to face. I find people in this meta like to be able to know/predict a Pokémon’s set on team preview but GF can really run anything and be valuable.

But I honestly think that’s the fun about AAA, and why I play it. It can get boring seeing a Dragonite and knowing 95% of the time it’s aerialate. If I lose to a sheer force special dnite, wp to the opponent for using something heat I didn’t account for. One of my losses on this run was to a CB pixi ES entei which smoked my lead turn one. Props.

Voting DNB for now. But that’s not to say a broken set will be found in the future that would need to revisit this vote.

:gouging-fire: Imma be honest, this thing is a menace.Even after 1 Dragon Dance, it can fuck up entire teams, and is only countered by stuff like wbb or the rare thick fat.I will be voting ban, it's time to put out the Fire.

:walking-wake: :roaring-moon: :Corviknight: :Meloetta: :Cinderace: :Zapdos:realest team i used in any of my reqs run, very proud of it.

edit: chien pao next please :worrywhirl:
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)